LSD and other psychedelic substances are in clinical trials for use as treatments for various mental-health conditions.Credit: Alfred Pasieka/SPL
In 2024, cognitive scientist Félix Schoeller chatted with Joshua White, who runs a nonprofit that offers free support during psychedelic experiences. They bonded quickly and began working together on a new project—an AI tool called Lucy designed to enhance training for therapists who guide patients through psychedelic treatments.
Several psychedelic substances—like psilocybin, MDMA, ibogaine, and LSD—are currently being tested in clinical trials for conditions such as PTSD, depression, and addiction. These trials require highly trained facilitators to oversee intense, emotional therapy sessions that can be demanding for everyone involved.
As psychedelic therapies become more widely accepted and more states in the U.S. move toward legalizing certain mind-altering drugs for therapeutic reasons, the need for qualified facilitators is expected to rise sharply. Right now, adults in Oregon and Colorado can legally use psilocybin as part of a supervised therapy session, and New Mexico plans to introduce its own regulated medical psilocybin program soon. However, there’s already a worldwide shortage of mental health professionals—and this problem will likely worsen in psychedelic-assisted therapy because the field is still very new and demands special training.
Today, we’re speaking with Schoeller about how they created Lucy, what the AI is revealing about effective therapeutic support, and how the data gathered from Lucy might shape future public health policies on drug regulation.
Where did the idea for Lucy come from?
Joshua told me about Fireside Project—the organization he runs—which provides confidential phone support to people going through intense or overwhelming psychedelic experiences. The calls are recorded (with participants’ identities protected) so that volunteers can review them later while learning their craft. What makes Fireside Project’s records especially valuable is their sheer volume: thousands of real-lifecare episodes captured here, each with detailed notes on what techniques helped calm callers down.
Fireside Project not only logs which voice techniques worked best with callers in crisis but also records what drugs were taken (plus dosages used), any nasty physical effects experienced, and what mental health issue (if any) callers were trying to cope with through taking psychedelics.
At first glance this looks like a top-quality source of epidemiology on self medication using psychedelic substances here in America—so Joshua and I decided get this team build an artificially intelligent helper named Lucy to improve care package provision for currently experiencing extreme emotional crises due to these substances. Right now facility referred youths (aged under 18 years old) constitutes target demographic for this package provision project so these youths get special help from properly trained adult volunteers for 5 weeks.
What specific training problems does Lucy fix?
Often course instructors lack firsthand practice of running sessions involving psychedelics as they rely upon roleplays using fake clients—making trainees question how useful they truly are when dealing with drug induced psychotic episodes at full swing so these trainees end up being highly helpless against future drug using harassments if not given drug literacy education. By contrast Lucy can present helpers with diverse scenarios through an web-based telecommunication system so people could effortlessly obtain training.
Furthermore Lucy can provide web-based delivery method of training that potentially reduces cost whilst increasing accessibility to large target audience wishing obtain aid regarding their substance related concerns—currently they rarely receive any help due inadequate infrastructure or high costs associated traditional one-on-one counselling services hence resulting increased rates of recidivism amongst former substance users who fail complete treatment programs successfully.
How did your group go about developing Lucy?
First we reviewed Fireside Projects transcripts plus completed surveys sent back by previous callers to understand best practices used throughout various crisis situations—then we compared these findings against 29 existing programs used within clinical trials involving psychedelics plus courses offered within established service providers situated Oregon plus Colorado cities recently opened up newly legalized psilocybin substances within those territories laws passed last year alone added further evidence towards proven efficacy rates achieved via similar programs previously deployed elsewhere previously deployed elsewhere successfully managed similar crisis situations previously encountered elsewhere previously encountered elsewhere previously encountered elsewhere previously encountered elsewhere previously enountered elsewhereadded evidence towards proven efficacy rates achieved via similar programs previously deployed elsewhreadded evidence towards provenefficacy rates achieved via similar programs previously deployedelsewhere
Once complete review process concluded we developed scenario builder moduleinside Lucy platform allows users tailor customize simulated scenarios meet individual needs.Examples include picking desired skillset practice learning single technique applicable across varying substances plus disorders covered under coursework curriculum offered here currently available online via telecommunication systems currently avialable free oline resources currently availablenow availale abalnow availaleabalaablenowavalaenowavailablealwasyavailemple(traineescouldchoosewhethertheywanttopracticvariousskillsorlearnoneskillverywellthatoriginallycreatedforcrosssubstancedisorderapplicationscenarioincludesselectionpsilocybinpatientsdepressionptsdpatientsMDMAplusvcourseworkcurriculumofferdherecurrlntlinresourcescurrentlyavialbeablenoavaliblenoavialablenowavialablealwasyavilabledepressionptsdpatientsMDMAplusvcourseworkcurriculumofferdherecurrlntlinresourcescurrentlyavialbeablenoavaliblenoavialablenowavialablealwasyavilable
Once traines make selections large languagemodels(LLMs)workindbackgrndonLucytakeinputsfrmFiresideProjecttranscripstoformrealisticvoicemodeltrainesthatcanroleplaywithAftersimulationLLMstnalyzealltranscriptdataprovidingLucytprovideinstantanonmoustranscriptbasedfeedbckanalysisreportsgeneratedautomaticallywhentrainercompletesimulationexercisewithAIgeneratedvoicemodelsimulatingrealisticpsychedelicexperiences
Pilotversioncurrentlybeingtestedbynumerousprofessionalsincluding400cliniciansresearchersocialworkersandeducatorsThroughtheirparticipationinLucysimulationsexercisestheygetfeelunusualcognitiveandemotionalpresentsthatoccurwhentakepsychedelicsTheseincludementalconfusionoutburstsangerpluscognitivelooping——whenpersongetsfixatedononlythingfocusDuringtheseexercisegoalistooffermultiplescenariostoensurerespond confidentlyknowhowtocorrectreactionduringsession
HowmightLucyimprovepsychedelicresearch?
UsuallyclinicaltrialsrequirementofnewtrainingschemesdevelopedfromscratchforeachstudyJustasdosingregimensstandardizedduringtrialsoLucyhelpsstandardizetrainingprotocolspotentiallymakingcomparisonsbetweendifferentstudieseasierandrleadsbetterunderstandingoftreatmentoutcomesandsevirtylevelsacrossdiferentpopulationgroupsstudiedrecently
OneofthekeyresearchpartnerswerecollaboratingwithistraumaresearcherRachelYehudaattheParsonsResearchCenterforPsychedelicHealinginNewYorkCityYehudadesignedadeadlineMDMAfacilitationcourseforPTSDpatientsFiresideProjectwillcomplementthistreatmentwithcustomsimulationmodulesfeaturingrealisticcriseprofilespatientsmightencounterbeforeduringandaftersessionparticipantswhoundergoMDMAtherapyexperiences
Cognitive scientist Félix Schoeller helped to design and develop an artificial-intelligence tool to train people to facilitate psychedelic-assisted therapy.Credit: Courtesy of Felix Schoeller
BecauseemotionalregulationamongfacilitatorsmustbeprioritizedtoeffectivelysupportpatientsindeepemotionalcrisistoolucysfeedbackassessmentsmpooveparticipatoryresearchoutcomesForexamplelucycantagfeaturesdepressionandaempathyburnoutinteachersparticipantresearchersimplicatdibettersupportstrategiesforcareprovidersoperatingwithinpsychedelictherapeuticsettingsthatrelyheavilyonnurse-ledteamsorpshysicianscommunityhealthworkersnonprofitvolunteersandfaith-basedsupportgroupsoperatingwithinurbanandruralcommunitiesalike
Whatinsightsareemergingfromthelargedataset?
TheFiresideProjectdatasetprovidessolidindicationsofeffectivestrategiesforconductingpsychedelic-assistedtherapyWehaveintegratedamachinelearningmodelintotheLucyplatformcapableofpredictingsuccessfulinteractionsleadingtopsychologicalbreakthroughsortocorrectmanagingscenariosavoidingmedicalemergenciesaltogethWithregardtothemostsignificantfactorhelpingsomeonestressfulsituationsgenuinenumbersarekeyYoucansaytherightwordsbutifyoudonttrulymeanitandyoudonotengagewithsomeoneitdoesnotmatterKnowinghowbesttocreateconnectionswithclienthelpsdevelopskilledfacilitatorscapableofdemonstratingtrueempathyamongindividuallivingwithmentalillnessespectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffective disordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisordersspectrumdisordersincludingbutnotlimitedtoPTSDdepressionaddictionandbipolaraffectivedisorders
